Fsbuild-2 Flight Planner

Hi there

I just bought the ISG1 panels, mainly because of the Smiths FMS gauge. All seems very functional and the graphic interface is very realistic.

However, I must admit that I was rather shocked by the lack of overview and basic manuals. I soon realized that the one and only guide to the FMS is a short little video on Youtube! - Simply not good enough!
It's not that I'm not use to operate a FMS - I have tried several FMS addons, but each and everyone one has it's own funny way of dealing with the level of realism. With some, one is able to load lots of data, others are more restricted, and so on. Therefore a profound manual with written tutorials is absolutely essential for each individual FMS design. Your product is the only one that I know of witch don't offer this basic customer service.
But at least you have this forum, so I here are my issues so far:

In order to try out the Smith FMS I downloaded the 737-800 cfg's from your homepage and installed them into the default FSX 737-800. I then followed the Youtube tutorial guide and started flying - then several problems occurred:


1. On the TAKEOFF page there is no Trim, V1, VR or V2 suggested settings at all - why is that?

2. When engaging the autopilot and LNAV at 1200 agl. I found that the plane don't automatically follow the waypoints - is there something on the MCP that extraordinary has to be engaged here with your particular configuration?

3. When engaging the autopilot and VNAV at 1200 agl. I found that the plane don't automatically follow ANYTHING - is there something on the MCP that extraordinary has to be engaged here with your particular configuration?

The Manuals are in your FS.../ISG/Docs sub-folder. There is a .pdf manual for every gauge included in the product, plus a manual describing all the config options and settings.



See above.

Also on the isgsim web site there are 2 tutorials the go through a sample flight with the MCU, and the the GNS. You've already see the Smiths FMS youtube video a customer made.



Because this FMS has to work in many different aircraft models, so in some ways it has to be a bit generic. V1,Vr,V2 speed are based on each individuals aircraft performance capabailiies and various Gross weights. That is something that can practically be done when the FMS is designed to be used by 'one' aircraft. Its is not so practical when the FMS has to work with various aircraft all with varying performance capabilities. So as a practical matter that feature was left out, as well as other features that cannot be practically implemented without knowledge of the aircraft's performance capabilities.



You have to turn on heading/select hold first, then LNAV will work.

Again this has to work in just about every aircraft its installed in, so LNAV works by submitting
headings into the aircrafts existing heading hold/select system. This requires heading hold to be on.



See above.

Also VNAV does not work unless LNAV is on first. This is to ensure the Aircraft is flying the track VNAV is calculated for.

Although ISG has a VNAV function it is not a true VNAV. ISG's VNAV merely allows the FMC to command the autopilot to fly a vertical path, and uses the autothrottle to control and meet speed restrictions. Wheras a real VNAV is done with static thrust (either climb, TMSP, or idle) and adjusts pitch to control speed.

Again as mentioned before, because each plane has different performance capabilities, a single VNAV function that is to work in almost every aircraft has to be somewhat generic in its operation.

ISG does not claim to be a realistic full featured system, but merely a way to 'upgrade' aircraft the look and functionality of addon aircraft that do not have any of these features a level that is usefull for Flight Simulation.

If you want these features in their somewhat true simulation, you're going to have to get in in a single addon aircraft where this functionality can be customized and tuned to take advantage of the aircrafts known performance capabilities, such as the types PMDG, LDS etc produce.

Regards.
Ernie.

Hi Ernie

From your answer I realize that I unfortunately just have thrown money right into the drain by buying this product. Also I have wasted many hours trying to figure out why the LNAV and VNAV didn't work as it is supposed to. Who could possible know, besides yourself, that one extraordinary has to press HOLD on the MCP in order to make the navigation system work?!
I can't see this odd exception described anywhere in your manuals.

The manuals witch I of course have been aware of all the time. But for that matter, when my plan is to use the Smith FMS I obviously don't expect to find answers and relevant tutorials in the different Honeywell's FMS manual unless you specifically would have referred to this somewhere in your documentation! However, because the two FMS types are based on some common principles, the handling procedures are totally different, therefor this would be pointless anyway.

As it is, the documentation of Honeywell's FMS is a user manual with procedures in its true sense, whereas the documentation of the Smiths FMS is a list of functions with a short description - not a user manual!
The link to the short Smith FMS "tutorial" video made by some generous person is all well meant I guess, but in reality ridiculously insufficient! No good, Ernie!

Anyway, I guess I learned the hard way, that this product - with or without manuals - simply don't meet the serious standards of what you obviously would expect from someone who specifically deals with a short range of flight instruments. Quite a disappointment and completely a waste of money and effort.

Morten

Morten,

If you want to rant, criticize and complain , go ahead, get it off your chest, you'll be ignored.

If you want more answers to questions, or further support regarding the product you purchased we're here to help.

Regards.
Ernie.

...some pretty bad days for both business and development, I guess!

Well, here's a question then:
What is the procedure for a refund here, for something that I obviously can't use?

Morten

Okay.



I'm pretty sure our distributer Simmarket.com has a no refund policy.

So unless they have changed that policy fairly recently, the answer would appear to be there is no procedure.

But feel free to contact simmarket.com support to be sure.



Obviously you can use the product as I have given you the instructions how to in this very thread.


Anymore questions feel free to ask, were here to help.

Regards.
Ernie.

Who could possible know, besides yourself, that one extraordinary has to press HOLD on the MCP in order to make the navigation system work?!


[/quote]
I did! I have owned the ISG gauges for many years and find them to be amongst the best investment in sim addons out there. I also own many payware addon aircraft so I have some knowledge in this field. As Ernie has stated. You simply cannot design an FMC system to work with "every" model out there. They are an extremely good add on to freeware and some payware, lacking FMC models. Thought I would let my feelings known. Some simple common sense would go very far. I can be a critique also! Sir as far as customer service. there is none better than Ernie's. I have purchased other products because his name is on them and his reputation proceeds him!

I've been flying simulators of various kinds for nearly 40 years, and real world aircraft for near the same. Of its kind, Ernie's stuff is the best there is and his after-sales is second to none. There is a learning curve with ISG but, judging from the large number of retro-fits posted on the website, and many others not posted, most folks are able to crawl up this successfully. I am sorry you cannot, Morten - you don't know what you are missing.


The use of LNAV is perfectly simple. Before take off you set your heading to the runway heading or whatever heading ATC or the SID tells you. At around 500ft you activate the autopilot and the heading hold, and check that the set heading is being flown. After that you click on LNAV without disengaging the heading hold. What could be simpler? It always works for me - in the Fokker F100/70, Flight1 Pilatus, Posky 757, Dreamwings Dash 8, Dreamwings Fokker 50 and many others.

Let me make myself clear here!

First of all, I reckon Ernie as a nice and gentle person with intention to assist in any way possible.
My main complaint was the lack of a profound FMS manual, since the fact is, that there are exceptional procedures here which are not to be found under normal conditions.

I've just gone through some pretty frustrating months with a malfunctioning stock FMS in my favored and bellowed Wilco Feelthere B777 (bad transformation work from FS2004 to FSX) and several unlucky attempts to replace it. First I tried a FMS addon from NPSimPanels and then one from JSG's Universal FMC for FSX - both turned out to be crab. Ironically however, both had indeed very profound manuals - especially regarding to all those important exceptions which are not to be found on a real FMS. So no surprises here - Things just didn't work as it was supposed to, and in practice there was no support at all! So actually quite the opposite of my personal experience from here

All in all a lot of waisted time and money. So finally I just thrown in the towel and since there's is no serious alternative FSX 777 for the time being, I just bought myself a CS 767-300 with an integrated FMS - which as far as I have used it works fine and as expected!

So I guess this means a "Roger over and out" from me, for now.

Happy flying!

First of all in your initial post you lamented about the lack of an FMC manual, this is
affirmed by your quote...



Once it was pointed out to you that there was indeed an set of manuals for every gauge included
in the product and where they were located including an SMITHS FMC manual. You then changed your tune, and claimed you had been aware of the manuals all the time.



Sorry, but that clearly does not jive with your quote from your initial post.

Your claim in the first post was that the '*one* and only guide to the FMS' was the you tube video.

Clearly you were not at that time aware of the 30 page Smiths FMC manual that was in the
..isg/Docs folder.

It was only 'after' we told you the location of the manual, that you then claimed the
Smiths FMC manual was not comprehensive enough for you.



The only difference between the SMITHS FMS manual, and the GNSXLS manual, is that we included
additional step by step tutorials in the manual.

We felt the additional tutorials were necessary for the GNSXLS manual as that particular FMS
operates completely different from the Boeing and Airbus style FMC's FlightSimmers are usually
accustomed to seeing (as you youself have in the previuous Wilco product you stated you have).

The SMITHS FMS manual includes all information as to what each button and mode does.

And even if said information was not included in the manual, you have a support forum
right here where you can get any additional information yoiu require regarding how the
products works.



And you '*HAVE* support here.

So why don't you make use of it ?

If continue to choose not to, the waste of money is your fault, not ours.

Regards.
Ernie.

Its mentioned in the sample flight tutorials.


Also a simple search of this very forum would find the answer.

Or making a post to inquire about the feature, to get a support answer for it (which he did, and which he got). Or email, or MSN,AIM, or Skype us and inquire about.

Now if one wants to claim a description of the LNAV function 'should' have been included in the manual. I don't disagree with that its a fair point.

But with the other avenues available to obtain that information, one can't argue the information can't be found.

Regards.
Ernie.

Ernie, why not stop this quibbling! Do you really intend to go on with this forever?

Why make so much fuss about it? - Why don't you just quietly meet this criticism from a customer as a positive opportunity to evaluate and perhaps make the necessary changes where you might agree and then throw the rest away.

Anyway, I should think that my last answer was quite obliging to you! So I really can't see the point of carrying on by implying that I'm lying to you and so on. It doesn't make sense if you don't take into account what I actually wrote - instead you spreed these incoherent quotes all over the place! I won't stand for it!

No further comments from me on this subject.
Bye, bye for now

Mod - time to lock this thread?

Agreed.

The first time in the 7 years we've had a forum here I've had to lock a thread

Regards.
Ernie.