Fsbuild-2 Flight Planner

Hi,

Whenever I try to build the following route:

EGAA LISBO DCT PEPOD DCT IOM UL10 WAL DCT NUGRA BNN1B EGLL

which is taken from the UK Standard Route document, FS Build (2.4.0.17 with the latest Navigraph Navdata 1104) always puts the NIMAT intersection between LISBO and PEPOD no matter what I do I don't seem to be able to stop it, any advice would be welcome.

Many thanks,

Steve.

Steve,

DCT does not exist as a waypoint?

Do you mean DireCT?

_________________
Vaughan

Vaughan,

Yes, direct, this was a cut and paste from the Standard Route document, but I did try it without the DCT and the results were always the same, NIMAT was inserted between LISBO and PEPOD.

Regards,

Steve.

Steve,

That part is normal for the SID you selected.

When you start FSbuild look in the upper left corner.
Do you see version 16 or 17?

_________________
Vaughan

Vaughan,

I have version 17 in the top left hand corner.

Unfortunately you are incorrect, it is not part of the normal SID. I have checked on the NATS website (and if that isn't correct then nothing will be) and none of the routings out of Belfast have the routing LISBO NIMAT PEPOD. I don't know of any SIDS that would put a turn of 95 degrees in them!

The NAT routings are:

BEL VOR - RDL 154° - LISBO - PEPOD - VOR IOM
BEL VOR - RDL 154° - LISBO - RINGA - SLYDA - VOR IOM
DCT - SLYDA - L10 - VOR IOM - DCT
BEL VOR - RDL 154° - LISBO - NUMPI - NIMAT
BEL VOR RDL 075° - BLACA - VOR TR

Even if I turn on "Exclude SID/STAR" in the Build Options and put a route string in of EGAA PEPOD IOM UL10 WAL NUGRA EGLL it still insists on putting LISBO and NIMAT in the compiled plan, there is something seriously screwy going on here.

Regards,

Steve.

Steve,

I have version 16 (still) for some unknown reason.
Thanks for confirming you have version 17.
I will have to check my installation again.

As for the FSBuild SID.

What SIDS (names) in FSBuild do you see in version 17 for EGAA?

Note:
I guessed at the SID problem because you had not given the route (routing) generated by FSbuild.

If you generate a route with just FSBuild is it correct?

_________________
Vaughan

Vaughan,

Just did a complete uninstall and reinstall to see if it cleared the problem, but unfortunately not.

On the FSBuild SID drop down for EGAA I get:

LISBO
LISBO.IOM70
LISBO.IOM90
LISBO.NIMAT
NEAST

Had a look in the FSB_SIDS.txt file and EGAA isn't listed, in the sids.txt file I have the following, if it helps:

[EGAA]
T LISBO LISBO 07,17,25,35
T NEAST NEAST 07,17,25,35

LISBO RW07 /T070/UA 668 07 54.652256 -6.235239
LISBO LISBO 4000 07 54.525000 -6.090000
LISBO RW17 /T167/UA 668 17 54.657920 -6.228622
LISBO LISBO 4000 17 54.525000 -6.090000
LISBO RW25 /T250/UA 668 25 54.662775 -6.196178
LISBO LISBO 4000 25 54.525000 -6.090000
LISBO RW35 /T347/UA 668 35 54.642553 -6.219986
LISBO LISBO 4000 35 54.525000 -6.090000
LISBO.IOM70 RINGA --- --- 54.398333 -5.571111
LISBO.IOM70 SLYDA --- --- 54.201111 -5.087500
LISBO.IOM70 IOM --- --- 54.066867 -4.763475
LISBO.IOM90 PEPOD --- --- 54.271111 -5.569167
LISBO.IOM90 IOM --- --- 54.066867 -4.763475
LISBO.NIMAT NUMPI --- --- 54.144444 -5.593333
LISBO.NIMAT NIMAT --- --- 53.965000 -5.742222

NEAST RW07 /T070/UA 668 07 54.652256 -6.235239
NEAST BLACA --- 07 54.883334 -5.158889
NEAST TRN --- 07 55.313333 -4.784111
NEAST RW17 /T167/UA 668 17 54.657920 -6.228622
NEAST BLACA --- 17 54.883334 -5.158889
NEAST TRN --- 17 55.313333 -4.784111
NEAST RW25 /T250/UA 668 25 54.662775 -6.196178
NEAST BLACA --- 25 54.883334 -5.158889
NEAST TRN --- 25 55.313333 -4.784111
NEAST RW35 /T347/UA 668 35 54.642553 -6.219986
NEAST BLACA --- 35 54.883334 -5.158889
NEAST TRN --- 35 55.313333 -4.784111

Sorry about the formatting, it doesn't seem to cut & paste very well.

Regards,

Steve.

Steve,

"Had a look in the FSB_SIDS.txt file and EGAA isn't listed, in the sids.txt file I have the following, if it helps:"

FSB_SIDS.txt is for earlier FSBuild version.



sid.txt is for your version 17.

If you generate a route with just FSBuild is it correct?

_________________
Vaughan

Steve,

I now have ver 17 of FSBuild.

With original ver of Navigraph and 0411 .. I see the SID problem also.

_________________
Vaughan

Vaughan,

Just tried 3 tests:

1) Renamed FSB_SIDS.txt to FSB_SIDS.xxx so that it couldn't use it (take onboard what you say about that file being from an earlier version), also renamed sids.txt to sids.xxx so that wouldn't be used either.

Result: Apart from a warning that it couldn't open the SIDs the route built perfectly without putting in the random NIMAT waypoint.

2) Renamed the above FSB_SIDS and sid files back to .txt and started FSBuild again, this time I placed a tick in the Build Options "Exclude SID/STAR"

Result: It built the route with the random NIMAT waypoint in it again, seems as though it is not obeying the Exclude SID/STAR option.

3) Removed the tick from the Exclude SID/STAR option.

Result: Same as 2 above.

It seems that there are 2 possible issues, one, that the Navdata has an error in it, and, secondly the Exclude SID/STAR option is not working as you would expect it. It only builds the route correctly when the sids.txt file is not present.

Regards,

Steve.

Steve,

I am rebuilding my ver 17 map database so I cannot do anything at the moment.
When it finishes I will look at the Navigraph sid.txt file.

_________________
Vaughan

Steve,

I looked at KDTW (my home base) and all is ok with SIDS and SIDs with transitions.
So, the EGAA SID is formatted a little different and gives a problem.

Try another Euro airport that has transitions and see if it also adds waypoints.

_________________
Vaughan

Vaughan,

Other airports seem fine, so I guess there is a problem just with the Belfast navdata. Seems strange that it wants to insert the random NIMAT waypoint even though you just put direct waypoints in and also tell it not to include SIDS or STARS, can't understand that one.

Hopefully the navdata will get fixed at somepoint.

Regards,

Steve.

Steve,

I checked ETAR which has transitions and it is ok.
But it also does not have one SID (with transitions) for all runways.
So the Navigraph format for EGAA is possibly the problem.

_________________
Vaughan

Vaughan,

Many thanks for all your help.

Interestingly the NATS website no longer shows Belfast as having any SIDS just preferred routings, if Navigraph pick up on this then the SIDS can be deleted and problem solved.

Steve.